creatine

[les]

does any one no if you can give a dog creatine, if so how much and does it work

Les

[dog]

That's an interesting question Les, I know people who use it (on themselves not their dogs) and they say it is effective, I have no hard evidence to suggest either way but the theory does seem to be sound. It doesn't build muscle as alot of people think but is an energy source for muscles which may enhance performance and possibly facilitate muscle growth because of an ability to work the muscle harder.

You can give a dog creatine as it is a naturally occuring substance in all vertebrates, the big problem is the dosage, I have looked and cannot find any information on this, it's possible that there is information on this somewhere but I cannot find it at the moment and would be reluctant to suggest a suitable dose.

The following is lifted from wackypedia....

Short-term use of creatine in healthy individuals is generally considered safe (see Creatine supplements#Safety). Continuous intake of excessively high dosages of creatine may lead to any of several possible side effects. While it has been hypothesized that consistently high doses could lead to hypertension due to increased water retention [12], studies have not yet been able to demonstrate either long-term or short term creatine supplementation result in adverse health effects.[13] Creatine supplementation utilizing proper cycling and dosages has not been linked with any adverse side effects beyond occasional dehydration due to increased muscular water uptake from the rest of the body.[14]

According to the opinion statement of the European Food Safety Authorities (EFSA) published in 2004 it was concluded that "The safety and bioavailability of the requested source of creatine, creatine monohydrate in foods for particular nutritional uses, is not a matter of concern provided that there is adequate control of the purity of this source of creatine (minimum 99.95%) with respect to dicyandiamide and dihydro-1,3,5-triazine derivatives, as well as heavy metal contamination. The EFSA Panel endorses the previous opinion of the SCF that high loading doses (20 gram / day) of creatine should be avoided. Provided high purity creatine monohydrate is used in foods for particular nutritional uses, the Panel considers that the consumption of doses of up to 3g/day of supplemental creatine, similar to the daily turnover rate of creatine, is unlikely to pose any risk".[15]

This opinion is corroborated by the fact that creatine is a natural component in mothers' milk and that creatine is absolutely necessary for brain development in the human embryo and the baby, as well as for optimal physiological functioning of the adult human body, especially the brain, nervous system, the muscles and other organs and cells of high energy expenditure, where the creatine kinase (CK) system is highly expressed and creatine levels are high.

[Shakka-Staffs]

ive researched a bit and got many different answers

www.k9power.com/creatine_dogs.php

www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=0&cat=1448&articleid=1346

[neilsherlock]

I take it in the search of body beutifull, im not sure if it aids my training or if its mind over matter. I know if have kidney pain i can stop taking it straight away, the dog however does not have that luxury. Im not sure that we need to be doing anything stressful enough in todays conditioning/ keeps to warrant the use of added chemicles, as added energy levels can be sourced through nutrition.

[dog]

Jul 23, 2008 22:55:42 GMT @neilsherlock said:

I take it in the search of body beutifull

Call off the search, all hope is lost ;D

[Griffa]

i give my dog fresh fish like tuna and macral the oils are really good and full of protine plenty of good exersise and thats a nuff to bulk my dog up. think it would work the hart up? and like two gunz said they cant tell you if its no good.

[martinl]

when benn was on milk still we used to fed him Protien shake every other day.. and did thst for a few years, maybe why he got so big with little work?

[neilsherlock]

you cant just take protein and get big, supplements have no magic quality, theres no get out im afraid, just exercise and good feed.

[cadgi]

creatine is made in the body,when you train and your muscle start to tire it's because your creatine level's are dropping,taking creatine it mean's you can train harder and longer with out muscle fatigue.the down side is that by useing it for long period's of time,your own body will stop producing it,well that's how it was explained to me(a friend of mine compete's in body building).hope this is of some help.

[neilsherlock]

Its also found in red meat and so should be there alreay if you feed raw.

[fatstaff]

creatine works well on the dogs , can retain some water ....
creatine, dessicated liver tabs and dmg all work for me .......
But as has been said no substitute for hard work , lots and lots of walking , throw the ball , push bike , treadmills is all good ..

[scylax]

better with good honest hard work m8 mill .pole ,swimming

scylax

[tdk]

its not a short cut, and will create volumisation, so for competition on here it would be ok , it does help the dog work harder for longer but and this is a big but, through the very nature of volumisation if you are aiming for a weight remember your dog will come out of it heavier, I have written an article on this in the past will dig it out and post relevant bit

[tdk]

here you go

Is manufactured in the liver, kidneys and pancreas and secreted into blood for transport to muscle (amongst other) tissues. Its formed from the amino acids arginine, methionine and glycine and is used by ours and the dogs bodies as an energy replenisher.

Creatine may also act as a lactic acid buffer and improve exercise recovery time. Lactic acid is a bi-product from anaerobic (without oxygen) exercise . Lactic acid is responsible for the 'burning' sensation when the muscle becomes fatigued. When you cannot train anymore, it is due to you either having run out of energy or a build up of lactic acid, and this is the same for dogs. Creatine may act as a buffer for this lactic acid, which helps to delay the onset of fatigue.
Weight gain is also usually present as well making say a 38lb dog go upto say 41lb this is due to volumisation of the muscles, which incidently IS in the form of muscle tissue mass and not water retention like many products.The volumisation also takes effect due the the dog being able to work for far longer and intensive periods.
Creatine has to be loaded and here are the quantities I use for a dog
2g per day as 2 x1g for 5 days
1g per day for 5 days
0.6g for 5 days
0.4 for 9 weeks (maitainence phase)
After the 5wks give the dog a three week break from creatine.
Ok to weigh the creatine go to the local head shop and buy a set of digi scales or if you buy in capsules each capsule weighs 0.2g
I always give the creatine in 1/3 of the protein drink before I take the dog for the exercise as creatine works better with simple carbs to react with the insulin in the dogs body

[paddy]

Have used it on myself in my younger days have and will not ever give it to my dogs...we used to load up on the powder and i could of shat through the eye of a needle used to puff up round the chops also...but it did the job... things you did as a youngster eh...towards the end a mate got hold of it in syrup liquid form... maybe that would be better for dogs dunno? but like i said wouldnt use it for dogs myself...as said above...just good hard work and good feeding...think creatine is in some complete foods these days??

[tdk]

never had a scouring dog on it, maybe you were using to much?
as I said if aiming for a weight I wouldnt use it, but for strength/stamina I would, I have found it works in the right situation, but it isnt a short cut

[paddy]

Feb 21, 2010 19:52:24 GMT tdk said:

never had a scouring dog on it, maybe you were using to much?

...Probably ;D...you ever tried the liquid stuff?...remember that being a lot better than powder/caps...seemed to be less water retention also

[tdk]

no but you can cut the dosage by 1/3rd if you mix it with an efforvesant such as Andrews but you only have seconds to use it before it deteriotes , so trying to get that down a dog is nigh on impossible, you couldnt even put it in a sprayer and get it down them as thats to slow

[paddy]

The stuff we used came in little bottles with a pipette...you had to put about 5-10 mil under your tounge or swallow it...would think that would be easy to squirt that amount down dogs throat with a syringe?...was as good as powder/caps as i remember

[paddy]

just looked and they still sell it its called stabilised creatine elixir...

[tdk]

where abouts is that Paddy?
I wouldnt like it in the food pre mixed, as each dogs appetite and metabolism is different, would rather dose per dogs weight

[paddy]

Feb 21, 2010 20:13:48 GMT tdk said:

where abouts is that Paddy?
I wouldnt like it in the food pre mixed, as each dogs appetite and metabolism is different, would rather dose per dogs weight

I think GNC sell it... theres a few places on the net also...I personaly wouldnt use it on a dog full stop mate...but each to their own

[tdk]

I use it on the coursing dogs, but wouldnt mind trying the liquid

[paddy]

If i was gonna use creatine id go for the liquid...no doubt someone will tell you otherwise...but it worked for me...would be interested to hear how you get on with it

[tdk]

ok

[Vincent]

I can't see why anyone would need to or want to use creatine on their dog. If you are not getting the "desired" effect from training train different try something else, it could also be the dog. But none the less if I think considering a short cut like creatine is ridiculous. It could be detrimental to your dogs health, and you would do think for what better looks? To be more competitive and maybe win a medal? Its hardly worth it and should be forgotten about if you ask me, surely the most worthwhile thing having a sporting dog and attending sporting events with your dog is the training and effort you put in together and supplements like creatine surely cheapen the end result. Any supplements you give a dog should be dietary and to keep your dog healthy personally anything other than this is not for the benefit of the dog but for the owners ego.

[tdk]

creatine enables your dog to work harder and longer , it isnt a short cut, and if used correctly increases your workload with the dog.It is used in virtually every greyhound in the world most sled dogs use it, and it isnt a banned substance for athletes, it is found naturally in red meat, what is the difference to using a 28% protein food instead of a 19% ? protein is found naturally in food as well and the higher protein means you can work your dog longer for conditioning, or are you gonna tell me you and the people who go to these shows feed cheap 19% protein grub at £7/bag ?Incidently most dogs scour because of protein over load through not getting enough work for the protein intake.If you look in my earlier post I said creatine is not a short cut

[anubis]

A good dog will work hard and long for his master without creatine.My boy will do 6-7 hours out in the field working....to me the dog has already been pushed to his limit.remember to much work for your dog is just going to make it stiff and unable to work the next day.
You will get exactly the same results with a healthy balanced diet i.m.o

[tdk]

if you know how to treat your dog properly then you can prevent lactic acid build up so what you are saying about stiffness is wrong, and towards the end of conditioning over a 4 week period we would be giving the dogs 6-8 hrs hard training everyday, this wouldnt be possible if what you are saying is true A

[anubis]

Exactly....so there for there is no need for creatine because you know how to treat the dog.

cheers Glen.