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Post by southern-staffords on Oct 9, 2009 20:21:21 GMT
Delaney, Some good old pictures wouldn't go a miss Very interesting read ! Exactly what I was thinking. Some great dogs you must of seen. Would love to see a few. Welcome to the Forum Delaney
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Post by duffy on Oct 9, 2009 21:14:34 GMT
"DUBLIN RED STRAIN TOPIC" i notice this and im thinking here we go again, game bill has a few posts and starts this topic,but has nothing to add to the subject after theres been several posts,u could be genuine whos nos ive heard all this pointless talk about this line in the past,the geuine ones are never for sale to any tom dick or harry,then buck says u have pm to game bill and only has 1 post ,sounds like a set up between them 2.as if its that simple with giveing the impression he has some avaible to bill if he wants some. maybe hopeing others will follow bill and ask,or maybe to peddle something with a bit of redstrain in there ped,if im wrong i appoglise number 13 i think your wrong ,i no what them dogs were like back then,and this is to ray also they were all shapes and sizes,u got some small and some big ive known some to be as big as 19",and were nothing like that black dog in the picture ,they were athletic ,the reason some looked really stocky in old pictures,was because a lot of them were kept over weight over fed and wernt fit,if they were conditioned they would of looked different,they had more length of neck , longer scull,and longer muzzle,say like wolf island boy 17" derry macash rascal 17" and nickys choice 18 and a half " they were never kept fit,but would of looked athletic if conditioned,that black dog is a modern day over exagerated bully show dog,and nothing like dogs that was used back then, if u no your stuff ray u will no this ,u stated it on that terrier site they were all sizes ,i think dogs being used back then had a good mix of bull and terrier. regards popeye think what you like but i have photos of many trial dogs that were very beefy animals, and i prefer the athletic ones myself so not trying to stick up fopr my own type as i do not like the dog pictured at all but the truth is the truth, i have picturess of many trial dogs that were very hefty and as hefty as that dog pictured, true some are far more athletic but many of the cuileog.coshair dogs for instance would not look out of place next to that dog.just howe athletic do you feel a dog needed to be to face brock for 5 minutes anyhow ?
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Post by hiphoplyricalrobot on Oct 9, 2009 21:38:02 GMT
Well that was top reading Ray, thanks for the great replys to all, im sure it made most of us realise we did jump the gun (a little) with our comments. My self included.
I wonder do you still see those badger tests as real test for the Stafford? Only i have read much to the contrary, stating them as cruel and no real test from renound dog men such as Brian Plummer and Mr Stratton. Your thought as someone who was there at the time would be great. Thanks again for spending the time on here to set the record straight.
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Post by delaney on Oct 9, 2009 23:42:11 GMT
Hello hiphoplyricalrobot Well that was top reading Ray, thanks for the great replys to all, im sure it made most of us realise we did jump the gun (a little) with our comments. My self included.No problem... Hello hiphoplyricalrobot I wonder do you still see those badger tests as real test for the Stafford? Only i have read much to the contrary, stating them as cruel and no real test from renound dog men such as Brian Plummer and Mr Stratton. Your thought as someone who was there at the time would be great. Thanks again for spending the time on here to set the record straight. Well if you would have asked me this 30+ years ago, I would have said absolutely! the badger was a great test for a dog. In asking me the question today, I would have to say it really all depends on a few factors, the setting, dogs etc... on the whole, I would have to say no, the broc is no real challenge for a Stafford.... the reason why I say this, is because there are other terrier breed out there taking the badger with ease, for example the Jadgterrier, the German hunt terrier, without any doubt one of the hardest little terriers I've ever seen working a badger, but here's the thing, this little terrier is no match for a Staff, they just don't equal in their bite or strength, but boy they make real easy work of a badger. so I would ahve to say the badger is no real challenge for the Staff. But as I was also saying, it really all depends on stage and setting the dog is presented with, for example. some of you know these dogs I'm about to mention, but there was a Badger Trail held in Tipperary in Ireland in 1959, there were only 3 Staffs entered, but 3 good ones, Battling Beauty, Fearless Colleen and Hara of Rubicon all of which failed to qualify for the green star certificete.... the club ran another badger trail a year later and the dogs entered were, My uncles dog, The Great Roger, Binglea Joker and Kilwilkie Lad and they all got the green star certificetes... and the club held another trail that same year with 5 dogs compeating and none of them made it.. so as I say, a few things to take into account. I hope this helps. To the forum ....I just want all you to know that, I came to the forum to clear up a few things of which I've said it how it is and only you can decide who or what to believe, I just want you to know that, I've enjoyed the few post and the comments etc... I'm going to cool my jets a little with the posting and will pop in from time to time because of work and other obligations.... but just want you to know, I've really enjoyed myself and if you need me you can email at info@raydelaney.net... I can't promise that I will get back to you immediately but I promise I will get back to you. So for now...... All the best and, keep it straight! Ray PS... Oh by the way... if you guys have a photograph of a dog that you all agree on that would represent your Athletic breed type... email it to me and I will put it on TerrierNetwork.com Maybe you guys could run a poll or something like that and ask the forum to vote on what dogs best represents your breed type... because you are right, the KC type dog has a display so should your own Athletic type..... Again, if you need me you can email at info@raydelaney.net... I can't promise that I will get back to you immediately but I promise I will get back to you.
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Post by dog on Oct 10, 2009 1:58:40 GMT
I don't think we could ever find a dog that we all agree represents our type because this forum is quite a broad church with many views contained within. There are many good dogs owned by people on this forum so I may set up a poll for people to nominate and then vote for their favourite. If the owner of the photo says that you can use it then I will send it over.
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eliza
New Member
Posts: 48
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Post by eliza on Oct 10, 2009 7:21:17 GMT
PS .. Well Frankie boy... where are you?..... see all these claims and nothing to back it up, what was it you said... he had strange ways or views when you last spoke with me before I left for the USA....... typical!
Frank is not at home at the moment so thats the reason he is not reacting. Thats all. He will be back home somewhere next week.
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Post by hiphoplyricalrobot on Oct 10, 2009 10:07:28 GMT
Cheers Ray, again many thanks for your replies. Please keep popping in as the more we can all learn from each other the better. Always a student in my eyes. Cheers
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matty
New Member
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Post by matty on Oct 11, 2009 13:13:11 GMT
Ray top posts good that you have come on to set things straight, from what i have seen of the Badger dogs they seem to be heavy powerful squat dogs, like has being said they do not have to be tall lean and athletic to go to ground. Delany have you heard of a dog called columbo and manix i believe if so were these badger dogs? I thought i would ask just incase myou know of these dogs.
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Post by hiphoplyricalrobot on Oct 11, 2009 18:00:19 GMT
i dont think any of these went to ground
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Post by michael-collins on Oct 13, 2009 21:44:10 GMT
number13 u have pm
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Post by gamebill on Oct 13, 2009 21:54:37 GMT
to popeye i was asking for a friend hes intrested in dr staffords im in to pitbulls this was not a set up i dont even no buck so dont accuse people who are genuine
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Post by jaysteph on Oct 13, 2009 23:50:55 GMT
i think my rocky would stand up as a badger dog? i.m.o hefty and also getting there athleticly not that i would ever test this. just an opinion hes not the most athletic dog but could hold his own or have i read this post wrong is so sorry
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Post by dog on Oct 14, 2009 0:10:17 GMT
I wouldn't argue with Rocky, he's a lump and a half!
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Post by frank on Nov 1, 2009 10:52:07 GMT
Username FrankHad a discussion with the man years ago before he left for the States, and must say that he had some strange views. Don't remember all, but I was ready with the man.Well Frank... I have no clue as to who you are but please enlighten me as to where in Ireland we had this so called discussion... as I say I have no clue as to who you are but if you would like to have a discussion, you can always email me, but sure would be interesting to know who you are, because you know the old saying, paper doesn't refuse ink, you can be who or what you want to be over the internet and I think this is the case here in your comments... Frank who? the only Frank I know that I've met in the Staffords, he was in my friends house in the North of Ireland and was drunk and talking shit about his black mut he had on the lead, calling me YANK and I hadden't even left the country... a very bright lad wouldn't you say.... All I can say is good luck with your Staffs, enjoy them, and try keep it straight. Ray - - - - - - - - - - - - Ray Delaney Not that Frank But there was a message list, fuck that must be years ago already, just before you left to the States. You where all cocky about your family bonds in the Staffords and the workingdogs who came from it. But on the other hand you where defending those too short on the legs, too heavy chested, short muzzled dogs with a fire you only see in showpeople who only see the dog as a statue instead of a living breathing animal that should be bred and built so it can perform optimal. Was long ago, and maybe you already altered your views as a result of your dogs living in a more hot enviroment what will show the shortcommings of such a built dog. So you know where my reaction came from But as I said before, maybe you changed your opinion on certain points. Frank
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Post by frank on Nov 1, 2009 11:05:27 GMT
Username stefan This dog doesn't look like at all like the badger dogs. Stefen, you wouldn't know a good badger dog if it came up and bit you in the ass, you have been chasing information from my uncles dogs and information on me for many years, post all over the place how you know everything about the game and the dogs used, your last posting was to the UK website the Hunting Life where you stated that Brindle Devil was a champion before Willie brought the dog to Ireland..... absolute crap, no such thing, it was my own farther that brought the dog over, if you want the truth just go to my web site as I'm sure you've been there quite a few times.... but I would say to you my friend if you want to talk about good dogs and the people then my advice to you would get it right... because your so off base with many things you have posted... have you really seen a good badger Staff? do you really know what a real one looks like, well I've handled at least 50+ dogs from all over Ireland, I've sat cooped up in the backs of cars and in the boot with some of the finest badger staffs you can only wish you had the pleasure of being there, so don't tell me that dog that posted on the terriernetwork.com site is no badger type dog or old Irish type of Stafford... man wipe your glasses, what was Bobby Watt's dogs like? and my own Uncle had at least 12 dogs just like the one posted and were all cracking game badger dogs and held CC certificates, they didn't gain their championship just on a badger, no they went up against some great stafford men, who knew what a good looking dog looked like, but again you favor the athletic type so you wouldn't know or even appreciate a good dog... if you want to get real my friend, you like dogs such as Delaney's Red Saint... do you know the real reason why he was being sent down badger setts? the truth is that he was a runt of a dog in my uncles eyes, looked nothing like the type of dog my uncle was going for, the disired dogs of the day were dogs that could be taken to the show, so many dogs like Delaney's Red Saint were taken out on badger digs for fun and the mentality at the time was if they get caught of happen to get killed, SO WHAT, at leaset we had fun, why leave the crap dogs back in the kennels or stray them on streets... no they had fun with them and when they came across a good one, they knew what line to breed from... man there is so much you just don't know... - - - - - - - - - - - - Ray Delaney No your not changed LOL Still a ass ;D
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Post by observer on May 17, 2010 6:27:45 GMT
We took the dogs out to a place in Dublin called Portmarnock where there was an active sett, we couldn't even let the sounder near Devil, he'd kill it, so we had to cover Devils head and let Taffy Willie's sounder do his stuff.... by the way Taffy a wire Jacker and not a tooth in his head... a crack up, anyway Taffy would draw the badger out enough to place a wooden board behind the badger and let Devil at him.... I'm not kidding you when I say that this badger was 40+ lbs and didn't get a chance to lay one on the dog.... he grabbed and two shakes and that was it, the board fell down in the shuffle and Devil went to ground and we thought he was going to die for sure because it was a sand badger sett, but all we could hear was thumping and Devil backed out with another badger in his mouth... that was it the rest was history, all his pups were just the same, as game as anything ourselves had ever come across. The amount of badgers he had drawn himself and killed in one day was 5. Willie stopped him after a while and put him to Stud, because he knew the dog was game and also knew that he produced some strange headed but cracking dogs. All Devils sons and daughters that Willie had in his kennel where all shown and also all on badger. Well boys and girls... That's about it. All the best Ray How can you have witnessed the above? Brindle Devil was killed before you were born in 1962. "I'm probably more ripped than your dogs Macy and Sonny put together at the age of 47... nice one lol By the way, I see that on your website you list the following: South Tipperary Canine Club - Major Terrier Trails - Dead Game Certificate, 1960 Willie Delaney's - Ch. The Great Roger - (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) Raymond McEvoy's - Binglea Jokers name. - (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) Judges: Mr G. Doyle, Mr W. Malone and Mr P. O'Neill You might want to change it to be Raymond McEvoy's- Binglea Joker. I did not mean that the name of the dog was "Binglea Joker's Name" when I said that Raymond McEvoy was issued the certificate in his Binglea Joker's name.
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Post by frank on May 17, 2010 11:31:23 GMT
We took the dogs out to a place in Dublin called Portmarnock where there was an active sett, we couldn't even let the sounder near Devil, he'd kill it, so we had to cover Devils head and let Taffy Willie's sounder do his stuff.... by the way Taffy a wire Jacker and not a tooth in his head... a crack up, anyway Taffy would draw the badger out enough to place a wooden board behind the badger and let Devil at him.... I'm not kidding you when I say that this badger was 40+ lbs and didn't get a chance to lay one on the dog.... he grabbed and two shakes and that was it, the board fell down in the shuffle and Devil went to ground and we thought he was going to die for sure because it was a sand badger sett, but all we could hear was thumping and Devil backed out with another badger in his mouth... that was it the rest was history, all his pups were just the same, as game as anything ourselves had ever come across. The amount of badgers he had drawn himself and killed in one day was 5. Willie stopped him after a while and put him to Stud, because he knew the dog was game and also knew that he produced some strange headed but cracking dogs. All Devils sons and daughters that Willie had in his kennel where all shown and also all on badger. Well boys and girls... That's about it. All the best Ray How can you have witnessed the above? Brindle Devil was killed before you were born in 1962. "I'm probably more ripped than your dogs Macy and Sonny put together at the age of 47... nice one lol By the way, I see that on your website you list the following: South Tipperary Canine Club - Major Terrier Trails - Dead Game Certificate, 1960 Willie Delaney's - Ch. The Great Roger - (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) Raymond McEvoy's - Binglea Jokers name. - (Staffordshire Bull Terrier) Judges: Mr G. Doyle, Mr W. Malone and Mr P. O'Neill You might want to change it to be Raymond McEvoy's- Binglea Joker. I did not mean that the name of the dog was "Binglea Joker's Name" when I said that Raymond McEvoy was issued the certificate in his Binglea Joker's name. Don't think the man will react, his last visit was October 2009
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Post by neilsherlock on Dec 20, 2010 0:19:32 GMT
Well poacher, here is an interesting post from this site before. Im Hiphoplyricalrobot in this discussion. it made interesting reading. Like i say i only have my past readings and questioning of others to go by. This was some of my reasoning for my thoughts on the conformational type used. Cheers again
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Post by poacher on Dec 20, 2010 7:56:15 GMT
trial dog and a dog worked to badger are different are 2 different disaplines if this is the new game spending hours trawling bring it on, as Tony Lee said to myself and John Nibbs once over dinner fuck I got some dogs outta the home to sell to the muppets as Dublin Reds when I was a young man. btw read all rays writings properly then there were the boys etc
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Post by neilsherlock on Dec 20, 2010 11:46:04 GMT
its not a new game. thought you may want to read it
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