hey everyone

[Niki]

hi everybody am new to the forum it was recommended by a friend so thought i would come check it out

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[shakkastaffs]

Very unusual colours very nice pups. Welcome to the forum.

[dog]

Hello Niki, what's the story with the pups? I like the merle colouring too, very unusual.

[Jessica]

Welcome to the fourm !!

Yes would like to know the deal with these two pups too, what breed are they, i know there are some bulldogs with this 'Merle' colouring.

[grchmason]

Hi and Welcome to the SACS Forum

You have me interested to in the pups any info etc

Tarren

[max]

Hello Niki welcome to the forum!

I do know that merle in apbts comes as a result of breeders introducing Catahoula Leopard Dogs into the mix but Ive never seen or heard of it in staffs..

catahoula leopard dog -

[hiphoplyricalrobot]

What! other dogs in the mix, never!!!!!! lovely looking dogs good to have you on here.

[max]

What do you mean by that Neil? an interesting point I thought...

[hiphoplyricalrobot]

8-)god its easy to be taken the wrong way on here. I agree with you, to me theres more in the mix than just bull and terrier, i heard a few times about wippet being introduced into scrapping lines for refinment etc. Stratton would tell you that theres nothing in the mix just pure APBT, nice to see your pic and info max

[southern-staffords]

Welcome to the S.A.C.S forum Niki. Yep I've only ever seen that colour in APBT's saw it the other day must of been on the APBT conformation site.

Max, I think thats neil's sense of humour......sad aint he lol!!!

[hiphoplyricalrobot]

You can fuck off drury!

[southern-staffords]

Oct 17, 2009 20:05:43 GMT @hiphoplyricalrobot said:

You can fuck off drury!

Oooooo Someones tired

[hiphoplyricalrobot]

and ive ad a beer!

[southern-staffords]

Oct 17, 2009 20:36:54 GMT @hiphoplyricalrobot said:

and ive ad a beer!

Night night, drink, drink!!fakorf!!!! ;D

[dawn]

hi and welcome to the forum, such unusual colourings on the pups

[Niki]

hi thanx for the warm welcome, you all have some very beautiful dogs
the pic is of my two new family members pup on left is a lil boy n right is a lil girl (no names yet so any ideas welcome)
i was looking for a puppy for a few weeks wen i came accross an add 4 merle staff pups i have never seen these types of markings on staffs so thought it would prob be a scam but it wasnt they only had two merles in the litter and i couldnt choose so i got both
they are kc reg and according to their breeder are full staffies (any thoughts would be welcome) their colour is also stated on their paperwork

[carlos]

the colour has been proven not to exist in pit bulls via dna and the adba will no longer register them even though there had been loads registered in the past, the colour (actually the patterning gene) i am pretty certain does not exist in pure staffords either, nice pups but definately a case of paper hanging somewhere down the line in my honest opinion.

[dog]

I agree actually, the chances of a gene (or a collection of genes) appearing out of the blue after many generations of not appearing is very slim indeed but I don't think it's a bad thing to have a fresh injection of genes as long as the contributing dog was healthy and 'a good dog'. Having said that I don't want to see people breeding for colour again or people putting merle to merle which can have health consequences for some of the pups. Merles should only ever be bred with non merle dogs.

I hope you don't mind us discussing your dogs like this Niki? I think you'll find that this could be a very controversial subject, perhaps not amongst most of the people on this forum but among the show community in particular.

[Niki]

hi no its fine its very interesting,
to be honest i would like to find out as much as possible and this forum seems like the perfect place the lady i bought them from told me it had taken her 10yrs to bring this gene out in her dogs she has kc paperwork for all of them and on my twos it has breed as sbt and colour as blue merle and white is it possible for her to have used another breed in her dogs and still be able to get peds for them also i was not planning to breed but if i did in the future what would be the best dog and colour to use as i wouldnt want to have unhealthy puppies it would break my heart i am new to all this so any thoughts,opinoins or info you guys have would be great :0)
thanx niki x

[max]

Hello Niki, this link explains merle genetics.....

bowlingsite.mcf.com/Genetics/Merle.html

[dog]

I'm not sure how you would go about trying to 'bring out' a gene/s in a breeding programme without introducing a dog that carries that gene as it's never shown any expression in Stafford lines before unless you had one dog that miraculously appeared showing expression of the gene/s and bred from that, as it's an 'incompletely dominant' gene you could then breed that dog and should expect some merle pups every time and when you breed from them expect the same. Once you have a merle dog you just breed from it, no mysteries there so taking ten years to achieve it is a bit far fetched.

What you want to avoid is breeding pups that have a double dose of the gene, dogs that have a double dose can have problems with their eye sight as well as deafness so it's to be avoided. Breeding two merle dogs together will produce approx 25% double dose dogs but breeding one merle to another colour dog shouldn't produce any.

[genie]

i signed up again after seeing this thread as i felt i had to say take those pups back!
accepting it will only encourage the breeder to do it again. why should you accept another dog to what you were sold and paid for. i'll put my hand up and say they are not staffords. something else is in the mix for sure! if you wanted a stafford, you didnt get one. you might have mostly stafford there, but they surely arent staffords and the fact they have kc papers to boot just makes it even more funny.
however you have already asked about breeding them and they are only weeks old, so maybe they will make good aquisitions? who knows. if i bought them and got told i had been sold a pack of lies i would be round the breeders house tomorrow getting everything straightened out. remember these dogs will be living with you for 10+ years, so get what you want living with you, not something else

[Jessica]

I don't want to come across harsh and rude but i have to be honest with you as this is a sad example of dog breeding - I think this is very dangerous breeding dogs like this and i think extremal cruel.

I know you don't realize and they do look pretty and they are unusual. It looks like this appear to be the new trend! I don't want to be the one to upset you but i think it may help you understand the pups you have if you weren't aware already.

The Merle coloring actually is created early on during fetal development as with all pigment and coloring. The same cells that determines the colour and pigment of a dog come from the same part of the embryo that the nervous system come from.
The 'dilution' in the colouring and the severely broken pigment is linked with serious nervous system defects, terrible hearing problems and deafness as well as blindness.

In fact majority of Merle dogs are completely blind at night due the lack of dark colouring at the back of the retina of the eye resulting in an inability in the eye being able to reflect any light in order to see.

This is why breeding for colour is so dangerous as colour of a dog is VERY VERY closely related to the nervous system, as well as the immune system - This is why so many dogs that have been bred sole for colour above anything else - as well as being extremely inbreed, normally suffer from skin disease and issues.

The Merle colouring is different to other 'patterned' dogs because the colouring actually lighten and whitens parts if the coat and skin resulting in the patches - It is the lightened areas that are the problems mainly if they around the eyes and ears. The white and lightened fur is where the nerve endings actually atrophy and die.... resulting in blindness and deafness.

The Merle colouring has actually been banned by the the Kennel Club in the Chihuahua breed - as there are so many health problems resulting from it, they will not register any dog OR bitch with that colouring or breeding - which says a lot for the kennel club do something!!!

I hope so much that these pups are OK both for your sake and the puppies.
But i would urge you to have them neutered and spayed as soon as you can, as the last thing you would want is for them to accidentally mate or ended up becoming pregnant at a later date.

There is no reason why they cant be great pets and make you very happy - maybe just get them down the vets and get them a good check out just so you know for sure how they are.

I know its not you that has bred them, and its easy to fall in love with a puppy its just a shame that you have been mislead in this way - Good luck and let us know how they are.

[dog]

I told you it would be controversial lol.

Everything I'd read played down any health issues concerning single dose dogs and only really concerned itself with double dose dogs. Thanks for the info Jessica.

[Jessica]

I have come across quite blunt i hope i have not been rude?

You are right Owen it is worse with a double dose of Merle.

I will be hung for saying this....

But look what majority of blue dog owners/breeders do... Breed blue to blue for a desired guaranteed colour, regardless of the quality or health of the dog invloved.... Well now I'm in trouble.....

I hope the Merle 'staff' owners look into the genetics behind their dogs, and don't fall into the same money making trap that past 'breeders of colour' have.

I am not trying to start trouble, and dont want a row about colour just stating my opion...thats all

[Mitchell]

This is the thing I like about SACS forum - topics reg breeds/health/type/temperament/game/drive/colour, any thing to do with controversial subjects regarding dogs - passion backed up with knowledge.

[Niki]

hi everyone thanx for all your comments i didnt set out to buy a stafford pup so if it turns out these two babies are not full its ok they will still be staying with me regarless however i will be having a word with their breeder as i also said i didnt plan on breeding and if i did ever consider it i would definately look thoroughly into everything before making a decision to go go ahead or not (and before anyone takes me wrong i have no plans to bred ). i have already made an appointment at the vets for a check and their first jabs so will let you all know how they are any more info would be welcomed also any name ideas :0)

[max]

What about Merlin? ;D

[Mitchell]

Bonnie & Clyde

[southern-staffords]

1st class advice Jess & Dog, I know very little about genes and there workings.

Do you have any others pics of the pups?? would be nice to see.

As for names, Pearly & Marley, Jack & Dannii?