Staffords and dog aggression

[hiphoplyricalrobot]

After my experiences with my last Stafford I decided I'd had enough of dog aggressive dogs and would possibly never have a bull breed again.

I have discovered since that time that I cannot live without a Stafford, dog aggressive or not, I love the fire, the passion of the dogs and truly believe I knew what I had and its my fault that the incident occured. I miss the breed tremendously and have made plans for another in the future.

Jo Mallen states, in the video on this site "A true stafford doesn't like the sight of another dog, thats his trouble".

So my question for debate is,

'Should a true Stafford be dog aggressive'

[bullmatt]

Jan 5, 2010 22:11:08 GMT @hiphoplyricalrobot said:

After my experiences with my last Stafford I decide that I'd had enough of dog aggressive dogs and would possibly never have a bull breed again.

I have discovered since that time that I cannot live without a Stafford, dog aggressive or not, I love the fire, the passion of the dogs and truly believe I knew what I had and its my fault that the incident occured. I miss the breed tremendously and have made plans for another in the future.

So my question for debate is

'Should a true Stafford be dog aggressive'

dont like the use of the word aggressive,but i think a true stafford (or any fighting or baiting breed)should be willing to take up a CHALLENGE to fight (and not back down) if the situation should arise(i dont meen snapping at every dog it walks past either).i think aggression can be a pain in the arse as my mastiff (winston)will scan the horizon looking for dogs to fight(a real pain).and if i let my guard down would probably end up in the same boat as you did pal

[NYankee]

I take a confident, but calm around dogs dog, over a dog that acts like an idiot if it sees another dog from 50 feet..I have two of those and It's not as fun.
My Stafford male on the other hand is interested in other dogs, but doesn't act like an ahole when he sees one, and if it's challenged he will not back down.He proved it a couple of times when he didn't start the fight, but sure would've like to finish it. JMO

[stefan]

I think agression is as much a part of being Stafford as any other quality and not a trait we must try to minimize or conceal. Instead, we have to promote and recommend responsible ownership. We must require that Staffords are kept and exercised in controlled situations, away from potential problems (off-leash parks are strictly prohibited). Just because your dog appears to do well with other dogs, you must be pro-active to prevent things from happening in the first place instead of dealing with a situation afterwards.

[quinlent]

Jan 6, 2010 9:45:25 GMT stefan said:

I think agression is as much a part of being Stafford as any other quality and not a trait we must try to minimize or conceal. Instead, we have to promote and recommend responsible ownership. We must require that Staffords are kept and exercised in controlled situations, away from potential problems (off-leash parks are strictly prohibited). Just because your dog appears to do well with other dogs, you must be pro-active to prevent things from happening in the first place instead of dealing with a situation afterwards.

Very well spoken Stefan. I agree with your post the full one hundred.

And Neil your next Stafford will be again hot to handle and hands full of trouble i am sure!

Marco

[...Paul...]

i watched that video too. A true stafford doesn't like the sight of another dog, thats his trouble" but didnt people keep the stafford alive because of its fire.

[hiphoplyricalrobot]

counting the days already Marco my man!

[qred]

I am no expert but have had Staffordshire's since 1988... My old Staffie from South Africa, a bitch use to jump a wall over six foot to look for dogs and fight. I then took her for training and she became so good that I had people from all over come and watch her.... She was still aggressive towards dogs but never seemed to look for trouble, but if it came to her she never ever backed down.... this is what i stafford should be. I could control her and then she knew who was in charge....

My dog now, A Quinlent one, is another story.. He is not agressive in my view, he just takes no Sh^^t from any dog. I have to watch him all the time and now my wife does not take him out far if i am not around. The problem is dogs also challange him all the time and he was attacked once by two dogs, the lady froze and i told her if she does not grab her dogs i will strangle them, this left my dog full of blood and holes, but the strange thing, after her dogs were pulled off, my dog seemed to want more and seemed very eager for more fight....

There are dogs that he will not fight, there is one bull terrier, a bitch that always goes for him and all he does is jump out of the way and to me this shows he is not so aggressive.....

The truth is I would not want a dog that I could not control and one that rips all dogs to bits, So far i have never had a staffie i could not handle.... ha ha and love the breed to bits, would never have another breed. But at the same time they need a strong hand, and that's why my wife leaves the discipline of my dog to me...lol

[frank]

Jan 5, 2010 22:27:55 GMT bullmatt said:

Jan 5, 2010 22:11:08 GMT @hiphoplyricalrobot said:

After my experiences with my last Stafford I decide that I'd had enough of dog aggressive dogs and would possibly never have a bull breed again.

I have discovered since that time that I cannot live without a Stafford, dog aggressive or not, I love the fire, the passion of the dogs and truly believe I knew what I had and its my fault that the incident occured. I miss the breed tremendously and have made plans for another in the future.

So my question for debate is

'Should a true Stafford be dog aggressive'

dont like the use of the word aggressive,but i think a true stafford (or any fighting or baiting breed)should be willing to take up a CHALLENGE to fight (and not back down) if the situation should arise(i dont meen snapping at every dog it walks past either).i think aggression can be a pain in the arse as my mastiff (winston)will scan the horizon looking for dogs to fight(a real pain).and if i let my guard down would probably end up in the same boat as you did pal

Every Stafford I ever had loved other dogs........(for breakfast)

[bullmatt]

Jan 6, 2010 17:35:09 GMT frank said:

Jan 5, 2010 22:27:55 GMT bullmatt said:

dont like the use of the word aggressive,but i think a true stafford (or any fighting or baiting breed)should be willing to take up a CHALLENGE to fight (and not back down) if the situation should arise(i dont meen snapping at every dog it walks past either).i think aggression can be a pain in the arse as my mastiff (winston)will scan the horizon looking for dogs to fight(a real pain).and if i let my guard down would probably end up in the same boat as you did pal

Every Stafford I ever had loved other dogs........(for breakfast)

and would you have it any other way frank?

[Jessica]

Dog aggression is hard to debate on as it comes in many different forms IMO.

All of our dogs here if challenged or approached in the wrong way would warn a dog off and then strike out and fight. My males wouldn't warn they would just fight. BUT they are not overly aggressive dogs. Butch for example despite what some may think is not really interested in other dogs - He wont be lurching and snarling at other dogs at a show, he would rather just sit and watch, BUT if a fight comes his way he will not back down.

On the other hand w have lived with a dog that was blood thirsty, he genuinely enjoyed hurting and would like to kill other dogs, his existence was for my attention or for a fight.
99% of the time we could just about control it but it was hard work, and not a good life for us and more importantly him . He was a miserable dog, and we struggled to enjoy his company at times, he was a nasty boy at heart and that is not a pleasure to be around.

My point being is that if this is type of dog aggression you are talking about, then i don't think any dog needs this to be identifiable as a good example of the breed.
I think it is unnatural to keep a dog restricted and pent up, this ultimately leads to an miserable life for the dog that is wound up frustrated and confined and no dog should have to live its life that way.

[gary]

havin never owned a staffordshire but getting one on jan 15th i would hope he wont be aggressive untill shown aggression against as before i had 3 big male dogs (mongerls) 2 where aggressive which made the other one the same and it was no fun takeing them out to the point i could not and let them off or even take them out i now have got 9mnth old DDB who is great but still keep him on his lead if other dogs about so i think the answer is a little bit of yes and no?

[maligater]

i have never owned a staffy *so please dont shoot me lol* but i have worked many either rescues or pets.
i have to agree with jessica on this one, my mali is a very confident lad and doesnt give a crap if dogs are going for him , however three times now * once with a staff and twice with newfies belive it or not* he got attacked on the beach. he was on lead the staff grabbed his legs and he just picked it up by its head. now i told him "out" he let go. but hes not the sort to start a fight but he will finish it! and for me this isnt something i want.

IMO as a trainer it isnt healthy to have a truely dog aggressive dog, a calm confident dog is sooo confident in his own self he doesnt need to show aggression, just his pressence is enough to demand respect. In my expereince dogs who "create" are actually slightly Insecure. im not saying this about your dogs tho. having a recue dog who was bred ect for fighting it wasnt a joy in the begining at ALL, this dog *dillan* would and wanted to fight no matter what. he would play with our pack and something would click and he would go in for the kill so to speak. after a lot of training he is now a calm, confident, driven dog who is easy to do anything with. doesnt want to fight anymore. but we do have to keep him in a calm and relaxed state as he can revert back if made over excited

[frank]

Jan 6, 2010 17:39:56 GMT bullmatt said:

Jan 6, 2010 17:35:09 GMT frank said:

Every Stafford I ever had loved other dogs........(for breakfast)

and would you have it any other way frank?

I do not aproach it as a problem, but as a part of the dogs character.
THis agression gives also the dog it'sfire in all the things it does. But combined with htis character they must be great family pets.

I think most problems exist with people who take a Stafford and think they can change their dog, or that their dog never will be that way because it is so sweet. Everybody who ever got a Stafford from me(and that where not that many) knew what he got, and could expect. And that is how it should be, as a breeder first try to scare the optional new owners for your pups. If they still want a pup after that you can be pretty sure that you will not get those pups back later because they can not handle the dog.

[Jessica]

Jan 6, 2010 21:16:47 GMT frank said:

Jan 6, 2010 17:39:56 GMT bullmatt said:

and would you have it any other way frank?

I do not aproach it as a problem, but as a part of the dogs character.
THis agression gives also the dog it'sfire in all the things it does. But combined with htis character they must be great family pets.

I think most problems exist with people who take a Stafford and think they can change their dog, or that their dog never will be that way because it is so sweet. Everybody who ever got a Stafford from me(and that where not that many) knew what he got, and could expect. And that is how it should be, as a breeder first try to scare the optional new owners for your pups. If they still want a pup after that you can be pretty sure that you will not get those pups back later because they can not handle the dog.

I make you very right Frank - its is down the the breeder to be up front with owners.

I personally don't have an issue with dog aggressive dogs being bred as such, but i do have a big problem when a breeder almost kennel blind and denial to the true temperament of the dogs in which they are breeding, and sell dog to people that cant cope and not prepared for. These are the breeders that are causing the downfall of the breed as a whole.... But that is whole different augment

Again it comes down to the breeder again. That is were the responsibility falls and the future of the breed.

[gary]

i think you are wright maligater i now belive they was a little insecure which i put down to my own fault in the way they where brought up they are all passed on now i had them 13 16 17 yrs i think traning is way as this is what i,ve done with my DDB and he his great and i dont belive traning takes away any of the dogs character

[dog]

With my first Stafford she was very insecure and would snap at any dog that came near her as a warning, she would never follow up with a full on attack as that's what she was trying to avoid by snapping at them, she just wanted them away from her. Macy is much the same although less so, in a way I like the way she is as she avoids confrontation most of the time but I've never seen her back down from another dog.

Sonny (Ingles bull) is different, he's very confident and will simply turn away from a dog when it's trying to start a fight and avoid confrontation. It's an absolute pleasure to be able to walk him knowing that even if he comes across a particularly aggressive dog a full on fight is unlikely. A small part of that is to do with the way I've trained him. I've allowed him to play fight with lots of other dogs but always punished him if it turns into true aggression. I'm sure he would quite happily have a scrap if I allowed or encouraged it.

[...Paul...]

im thinking that if anyone didnt want a dog with abit of fire then a stafford isnt for them. but isnt all bullbreed renowned for some sort of fire? but also on a interview i herd. that Lets say britain managed to ban all bullbreeds an then lets say 10 years time there no bull breeds. wouldnt someone train an start a aggresive line in lets say a Labrador. so would hoodies or people who like agressive dogs just go to that line? if im confusing people sorry just hard to put accros what im getting at.

[alex]

A stafford should be what a stafford is, like mentioned earlier it's a part of their character. I also agree that it's up to the breeder to be up front with the new owner.

[quinlent]

Jan 6, 2010 21:16:47 GMT frank said:

Jan 6, 2010 17:39:56 GMT bullmatt said:

and would you have it any other way frank?

I do not aproach it as a problem, but as a part of the dogs character.
THis agression gives also the dog it'sfire in all the things it does. But combined with htis character they must be great family pets.

I think most problems exist with people who take a Stafford and think they can change their dog, or that their dog never will be that way because it is so sweet. Everybody who ever got a Stafford from me(and that where not that many) knew what he got, and could expect. And that is how it should be, as a breeder first try to scare the optional new owners for your pups. If they still want a pup after that you can be pretty sure that you will not get those pups back later because they can not handle the dog.

I for sure agree with you. As here in my home there is no difference in approach. And those who do not accept the excisting nature of there stafford are the most dangerous people for our breed.

its like Paul said if you don't like a dog with a bit of fire the stafford is not the dog for you.

[qred]

Marco

Red has loads of fire and I love him to bits.......... ;D ;D

[mck]

Yeah, I think it should.
Whether it is right or wrong. I have no problems with it.
Paying attention to the bodylanguage of the dog. I have two sisters from the litter that I bred myself. I know them every few months have lost their ''aggression''. I can occur once maybe even twice, but the third time they will fight. I love my dogs and they belong to me. But I've chosen and I knew that would happen again. And they stay with me until they die.

I'm much on events and shows with my dogs. So they always see dogs but sometimes they fall out and sometimes the ignore them. That depends on their mood.

[frank]

Jan 7, 2010 12:39:59 GMT mck said:

. So they always see dogs but sometimes they fall out and sometimes the ignore them. That depends on their mood.

Or it depends on the body language of the other dog.

[mck]

Jan 7, 2010 12:59:32 GMT frank said:

Jan 7, 2010 12:39:59 GMT mck said:

. So they always see dogs but sometimes they fall out and sometimes the ignore them. That depends on their mood.

Or it depends on the body language of the other dog.

LOL. Yes thats possible, but I have my own dog in my hands. So I have nothing to say, I try my dogs in ''restraint'' to keep. Otherwise you will comment on StaffordTimes that your dogs are so aggressive.

[frank]

Jan 7, 2010 13:05:17 GMT mck said:

Jan 7, 2010 12:59:32 GMT frank said:

Or it depends on the body language of the other dog.

LOL. Yes thats possible, but I have my own dog in my hands. So I have nothing to say, I try my dogs in ''restraint'' to keep. Otherwise you will comment on StaffordTimes that your dogs are so aggressive.

Theree will always be people who will comment on dogagressive dogs. But we have to make sure that we do everything possible to avoid our dogs to get dangerously close to another dog, thus a confrontation. Also anoing screaming and barking can be solved to a minimum by just turning the dogs head to another side.

Believe me it works, as most of the times I have ever been in a ring, I was the one with tha lunatic, so I know what I am saying ;D

But remind me, who are you?

[mck]

Jan 7, 2010 15:12:28 GMT frank said:

Jan 7, 2010 13:05:17 GMT mck said:

LOL. Yes thats possible, but I have my own dog in my hands. So I have nothing to say, I try my dogs in ''restraint'' to keep. Otherwise you will comment on StaffordTimes that your dogs are so aggressive.

Theree will always be people who will comment on dogagressive dogs. But we have to make sure that we do everything possible to avoid our dogs to get dangerously close to another dog, thus a confrontation. Also anoing screaming and barking can be solved to a minimum by just turning the dogs head to another side.

Believe me it works, as most of the times I have ever been in a ring, I was the one with tha lunatic, so I know what I am saying ;D

But remind me, who are you?

I do not face my dogs.
I am Hélène. My dogs are Muscle and Hope

I understand. And I have respect for what you say.

[...Paul...]

i have the same thing. fergiie is a loon. i have tried alot of stuff an ive found that good sharp ceaser snap works great, its a sharp tug on the lead works pretty good with fergiie. as many of u know shes abit too fiesty but hasnt really gone to bite just makes lots of noise.

[bobslurchers]

Jan 6, 2010 21:04:01 GMT maligater said:

i have never owned a staffy *so please dont shoot me lol* but i have worked many either rescues or pets.
i have to agree with jessica on this one, my mali is a very confident lad and doesnt give a crap if dogs are going for him , however three times now * once with a staff and twice with newfies belive it or not* he got attacked on the beach. he was on lead the staff grabbed his legs and he just picked it up by its head. now i told him "out" he let go. but hes not the sort to start a fight but he will finish it! and for me this isnt something i want.

We have never owned a full staff either, we have a 1st cross currently. She is very freindly to other dogs (even being one of the few dogs to have made freinds with 2 guard dogs that wind up all the other dogs), but has no problem saying she has had enough (usualy an air-snap) if any of the other dogs annoys her.

Even our rottie is well behaved, even though she has been attacked by other dogs 3 times. Each time she has just just got scruffed the attacking dog in her mouth, and controled it untill we have removed the dog .

We have one dog who isnt dog aggresive but hadnt ever been taught how to meet other dogs nicely, so can often get an aggresive reaction for being too bouncy/mental. We have to be very careful where and when we walk him as she gets so exited when he sees another dog (weird as he lives with 8 other dogs).

Purely for the ease of being alble to walk and control a dog i would prefer a non aggresive dog.

[maligater]

My GSD is a joy so is the rest of my pack, my malis always been a anti social monster if challanged :/

i prefere it this way too, when i get working dogs tho *like your dogs are * i do exspect a higher drive and lot of attitude but to work the dogs in security and such we want that "aggression" controlled as we have also worked with other dog teams and we dont want them to focus on the dogs but the job in hand, but thats with my gaurding breeds.

[dog]

If you're going to have a Stafford then you should expect a certain level of dog aggression. It's not that all Staffords are naturally dog aggressive but most are and let's face it that's what they were bred for even if the majority of them are not bred for this anymore. If you bought a Spaniel and it didn't sniff things then you would consider it odd, the same should go for Staffords and you need to take the neccasary precautions.