Encouraging prey drive in our dogs....

[Jessica]

OK.... This is my question(s) to you all, and something that i have thought about on a number of occasions, and a subject that i have recently spoken about. In the past i have even had a heated debate with a particular rescue charity.... I will hold back my opinions on it for now.

Should we be actively promoting an increased prey drive in our dogs? IE lure running flirt pole etc....

The reason i ask this is because it is not something you can easily switch off. Once a dog gets into something for example the lure running it is not always that is easy to control and can be transfered onto other small moving things?!

All of our dogs have some extent of prey drive, but the lure running flirt pole etc will heighten it, sometimes resulting in fiery and hard to control dogs in the wrong hands....

We take it for granted that many of us have a good understanding of our dogs this makes it easier for us to keep them under control - but what about the owners that don't i know?
Do our bull breeds and their already suffering rep really need us to encourage them to chase things, and increase drive once a month and then expect them to be normal family pets the rest of the time?

[wybren]

I don't think the lure racing really does encourage the prey drive that much. The prey drive just is there, and we use it.
By letting the dogs chase the lure and flirt etc. you just get an eassier dog on the couch at evenings

I remember the first time we let Kayleigh chase the lure. Before we started I wasn't even sure she would chase but boy did she do it when the lure got moving. It was a tough job getting her of the scene after. Back home she was still the same girl.

[dog]

I don't see it as a problem. I'd never owned a dog with big natural prey drive until I got Sonny and like any other behaviour trait you need to be aware of it and take the relevant precautions. I can't let him off in Epping Forest anymore because if he gets on the scent of a deer or sees one I won't see him for a good while...the remote control shock collar also doesn't work in thick forest (not that he'd take any notice of it if he was chasing a deer). There are also horses on the paths running through the forest so he has to go on the lead if we go there. Other than that it's not a problem, I'm happy for him to spend his whole walk looking for and chasing rabbits and squirrels etc because it's good exercise and keeps him amused. Chasing foxes can be a problem but I've had that with my other dogs, even though they have very little prey in comparison.

I was worried that he might mistake a very small dog for something else and chase it but I've not had any problems with that, he seems to know exactly what they are, even the little furry things that I have trouble working out what they are.

I've not encouraged his prey drive because it's already sky high and I can't see any benefit in it. Having prey drive like that means I can concentrate on getting him fit, it's a big bonus.

They are dogs after all and prey drive is the most natural of all their basic instincts.

[Jessica]

The reason i have asked this, and wanted to hear your opinions on the subject was because i had, lets say an 'tiny augment' with a woman who runs a rescue charity for bullbreds. She was so against the lure running, flirt pole and any athletic events. She said it encouraged dogs to act in uncontrollable way.
At the time i strongly disagreed with her, and though she was very ignorant. But recently i can understand.... only slightly were she is coming from. I don't agree with it entirely, but can see how she can get that impression. I offered to foster dogs in our kennels, and she said on the condition that i do not let the dog do any flirt pole, lure running or anything that encourages a dog to chase and bite - so i didn't foster dogs for her.

But is interesting to hear you views...

Owen do you think if you had not given Sonny the thrill of chasing the lure from a young age maybe he wouldn't be so switched on now i understand the breeding behind. The whole event, the excitement of the other dogs, the feeling you give off to him is all encouragement and rewarding him for chasing without even realizing, and maybe something that will shape the dog you have now?

[dog]

Jan 12, 2010 22:53:45 GMT Jessica said:

Owen do you think if you had not given Sonny the thrill of chasing the lure from a young age maybe he wouldn't be so switched on now i understand the breeding behind. The whole event, the excitement of the other dogs, the feeling you give off to him is all encouragement and rewarding him for chasing without even realizing, and maybe something that will shape the dog you have now?

Possibly but that's exactly how I like him and I don't think he would be much different anyway. At home he's the perfect house pet (believe it or not) and as long as he gets enough exercise he'll sleep most of the day.

If you want a dog for a particular purpose then you need to select a dog for your needs and train it for it. I was in the rather rare position of selecting and buying a dog almost solely for competition in athletic events and so prey drive was high up on my list of priorities. He was harder to train than Macy was but that's more to do with his breeding and my inexperience of the breed although I always knew he might be hard work.

The vast majority of people would not want a dog like Sonny and would struggle to deal with his prey drive amongst other things so if someone had a dog like that and was struggling to cope then perhaps encouraging it is not a great idea but it's not a problem as far as I'm concerned apart from when he's attached to the front of my bike and see's a squirrel...I'm going through brake pads fast!

For me prey drive is a requirement but I understand that alot of owners see it as something undesirable. That's pretty sad considering what a dog is...it's still a carnivorous hunter no matter what we've done to it over the years.

[mayhem]

i dont think you have to encourage prey drive in a dog they all have it every breed how many people throw a stick a ball for their dog ?? surely its there prey drive that compells them to give chase u throw the ball the dog runs you dont see them sauntering over to get the ball do you is this not the same princeable as lure or flirt ?? i feel that i would rather trust a dog that has a chance to blow of steam in this fasion than a bored dog that just gets a walk round the park ive not got coco on a lure yet but she will tear off after cats squirels rabbits and larger birds every day on every walk a quick ay or whistle when shes after a cat and she normaly stops she has never mistaken a small dog or child and given chase which i assume the woman is getting at also i can walk past live stock without incident, its thinking like hers thats damaging and she works with bullies 2 shame on her does she mind collies doing fly ball how about racing greys that chase lures and then are rehomed to familys any way yes they can can do theses events and then live at home as part of the family

[bobslurchers]

Presumably they also stop anyone who takes on their dogs throwing sticks, tenis balls, doing agility, flyball or whatever!

I think a lot of people are oposed to these kinds of sports as they think its curel, but its really no different than doing any of the normal doggy activities above really. The dog has been taught to do a certain action for the reward of a happy human! plus the dog get to have fun too chasing or whatever.

Surely it is better to have a dog thats tired out at the end of a hard days play and is also trained to reacall when needed (as with all these sports you need good control over your dog), or would they prefer all their dogs bored in kennels banned from chasing anything that may be fun. I think the danger is they are confusing those with "well trained sporting dogs" to those, who have just gone out and bought whatever dog looks "hard" and they let chase everything in the park.

[maligater]

as you know i dont own a Bull Breed, altho we have Dillan whos a mixture of lots lol. But i own working dogs who Need a certain leval of prey drive to do their job.

I dont think encouraging chase games flit pole ect makes a dog un controllable, far from it i use my dogs Prey Drive to work their OB. i have horses, had livestock ect and trust me my GSD is a GREAT ratter but she will never give chase to livestock, the deer or any other furry about nor will my other pack members. because its all controlled with them. My malinois comes out riding with us and the horses, many times deer have jumped out in front of us, and he doesnt bat a eye.

But trust me that dogs drive is extreme! its a bit like saying because we train our dogs to bite, they will bite everyone. Far from it the dog learns when and how to correctly use their mouth. so much so they never put their mouth on us ever.

i have had ppl train with me who have been told by trainers that because they have a bull breed they shouldnt even play tug of war my dogs LOVE this its all about keeping things controlled at the end of the day. we have to be VERY careful with dillan due to his past. so when playing with him we keep it calmer at times but still let him tug and chase. he is a dog after all!

God it would be like saying i shouldnt gallop my horses as it teaches them to go fast...EH YEA we want that lol

[quinlent]

Hello Jessica,
the lady is wrong in the way that she is blaming an activity while she should blame personal incompetence.

it is possible that she cannot control a prey driven dog but thinking that no one else cannot is so to say an arrogant and a narcissistic approach.

And most of the time these people so strongly believe there own words they are a complete waste of time and the only advice they should get is to stop taking care of predatorial animals.

Cheers - Marco

[Jessica]

I appreciate your replies its is always good to read your opinions on different subjects.
Thanks for your time guys.

[willo]

Hi Jessica...the woman from the rescue sounds like a pratt tbh..
Prey drive is something I look for in my pups from the off.. some dogs have an off switch some don't and need alot more work..I spend hours building prey in my dogs, I'd be gutted if they didn't have it, flirt pole, lure, etc is just building on what is already within the dog..sometimes there can be a problem with misdirected drive if its not handled properly and not fully understood, thats why the homes we choose for pups are so important, breeders have to ensure that pups potentually with high drive go to people who understand it and can mold it in a direction they want it to go..
My dogs can lure cousre, flirt, do bitework and very quickly switch off and relax with the kids..prey drive isn't a problem..arsehole owners are..
Deb