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Post by frank on Jun 17, 2009 16:10:42 GMT
It would be cool to check out each others favorites dogs. If we look at each others favorites, we learn a little bit more about each other. I will look up some pictures and hope you do the same. No worries Stefan i will i am @ work and after i have responsibility's for my SBT sporting club training but i'll post a lot of my favourit dogs cheers mate - Marco Lets reduce it to 3! evrybody just not more than 3, that gives a better idea about everyones view on things.
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Post by frank on Jun 17, 2009 16:38:15 GMT
And within bigger available genepools it has been possible to breed the complete dog? If gameness is still there a better chance yes. But on the other hand the dog with the best character that can win will be bred, not always neccacery the best built dog. And very important they where not shared! They where, but only withing certain circles. Later after Colby they started selling(peddling) more and more. And today we see huge gamedog producing kennels, although the last few years there where some very good ones busted.which shows that the intire matter of the search for gameness is only for a few very devoted people to that matter. For gameness they have to go trough a certain amount of dogs yes, so not for the average pet owner. And isn't it an important factor only for those few who actually bring their dogs to the box on a regular basis? Yes it is.Then can you agree with me that it should stay in the minority? Yesand that for examples in pictures it is better to put up well constructed Staffords and honour the discussion about game dogs in story's and not in pictures becouse it gives a wrong direction to people where to breed for in fysics? No ;D I think its more then helpfull to study our breed to see how the "real Staffords" ;D ;D ;D looked like. We also see that if we study the old pics and the early American dogs as Neil mentioned are far lighter built then most of our recent dogs. We can keep track of how far we drifted from the original dogs, and we can show those showjudges and breeders what they ave done to the breed trough the years. It wasn't always bad but it wasn't always good eigther. Can you agree that we for sure made a big step forward in conformation in general? No, I can't. Because if you say that you must think that the modern day Stafford would suit its job better than the oldtimers, and they won't. The complete type is drifted big time from the original type. Only thing is that we see less faults. But on the other hand we hear of lot of slipping patella, bad knees, inverted canines etc etc.When you need to make a step to an other breed isn't it that the thing about Staffords is from a different order and open for fair critiques? as we have learned this discussion gameness can only be seen by a few that are seriously breaking the law? It is better to tell the story of gameness uncensored but without a picture others then old photo's out of pits to give an example. No in battle I do not see a difference between the Pitbull and the Stafford. They both had to show the same things, and as the Pitbull is much beter documented we should grab the chance with both hands to learn trough that more about our own breed. And the pictures can help to understand what and why.
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Post by hiphoplyricalrobot on Jun 17, 2009 18:32:42 GMT
This dog makes me get tingles, i love everything about his composition, fit for purpose 100% in my eyes Gentelmen Jim a brilliant blue print for the KC enthusiast to stick too imo Amos Bane, again this dog gives me everything i would look for in 'type' I do agree, conformation counts for nothing without 'balls and heart' but like i said 'if the nuts aint done up on the train'!
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Post by frank on Jun 17, 2009 19:28:31 GMT
This dog makes me get tingles, i love everything about his composition, fit for purpose 100% in my eyes Gentelmen Jim a brilliant blue print for the KC enthusiast to stick too imo Amos Bane, again this dog gives me everything i would look for in 'type' I do agree, conformation counts for nothing without 'balls and heart' but like i said 'if the nuts aint done up on the train'! These 3 also had the heart!
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Post by frank on Jun 17, 2009 19:36:50 GMT
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Post by hiphoplyricalrobot on Jun 17, 2009 19:58:54 GMT
hey thats 4 already frank !
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Post by hiphoplyricalrobot on Jun 17, 2009 20:02:32 GMT
I really like the look of Slade mate, lovely length and balance, babs is a cracker mate, spot on !
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Post by ianhurley on Jun 17, 2009 20:29:51 GMT
Neil good choice mate, havoc is back in my own dogs pedigrees and you can see the likeness between harry and havoc especially in the head. like two pennies!
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Post by ianhurley on Jun 17, 2009 20:34:36 GMT
mine would be havoc (amos bane), gr.ch. big red and gr.ch.rocky! will try and gets some pics up of these other two tomorrow. all good dogs bred down off k.c. stock. all three dogs have great comformation and havoc and rocky both travelled in the fast lane!!
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Post by cadgi on Jun 17, 2009 23:19:16 GMT
I have heard from some people who tried Pits for badger that they did not better than a Staff. But also this would depend on the lines you have I guess. Badger the ultimate gametest... Some think it is, others think it isn't. There where dogs that did Badger but no dog, and there where dogs that did dog, but no Badger. So also not really a good answer for this. A nice saying is: One mans game dog is anothermans cur(or something like this.) That is interesting isn't it doesn't it come down to my old line Frank as i said many many years ago that it is the dogman that makes the difference in the matter. I am 100 % sure i am the only person in this forum board or any where else that has trained over seventhousant dogs of all breeds and Pitbulls and Amstaff's from the USA Holland and the rest of Europe from the very early ninety's up untill today with my own hands. I had crawling amstaff's and turned them into show champions. i turned uncontrolable pitbull's in social companions i have bred and trained Staffords that have a daily job with a social function with authistic children. i made one specific dog a fine companion within 5 min last iron dog event. people spirited dogs are born but gamedogs are made! Marco i've just read back through this thread and i noted you say you've trained over 7 thousand dog's in less than 20yr's,(early 90's,page 3, half way down ,since the early 90's YOU state) fair play to you sir that work's out that you've spent all of 20 hr's on average with every dog that's passed through your hand's.you must be one hell of a dog handler or a god when it come's to dog's. J.M.O. A.T.B......Lyndon.
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Post by frank on Jun 18, 2009 5:28:47 GMT
hey thats 4 already frank ! 2 dogs ;D
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Post by frank on Jun 18, 2009 6:51:03 GMT
This dog makes me get tingles, i love everything about his composition, fit for purpose 100% in my eyes Gentelmen Jim a brilliant blue print for the KC enthusiast to stick too imo Amos Bane, again this dog gives me everything i would look for in 'type' I do agree, conformation counts for nothing without 'balls and heart' but like i said 'if the nuts aint done up on the train'! These 3 also had the heart! Just added to get a better view of how much the showdog is changed compared to Gentleman Jim, as the other picture just showed his front. Specially look at the length of this dog. We do not see that in todays showring anymore. And looking at it as a fighting dog, can you imagine how bad it is for a fightingdog to have its back as short as some these days?
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Post by anton on Jun 18, 2009 7:49:37 GMT
GR. CH. Jeep ROM, a famous apbt. Hummer, SBT, a dog I know well and love. I've always liked the looks of Game Laddie. So i am just posting it for that. I havent found much reading material on what he was actually like.
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Post by hiphoplyricalrobot on Jun 18, 2009 8:58:17 GMT
spot on with the comment about length Frank, short backs also reduce the angles of the hinds reducing propoltion, another important factor.
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Post by martinl on Jun 18, 2009 9:06:13 GMT
Great pics.. wasnt that one you 1st posted, EBT X SBT neil.. really liek the look of it..
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Post by anton on Jun 18, 2009 9:20:04 GMT
wasnt that one you 1st posted, EBT X SBT . yup
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Post by dog on Jun 18, 2009 9:32:16 GMT
wasnt that one you 1st posted, EBT X SBT . yup That's Stormer, one of the best fighting dogs of all time. As has been said he was an EBT cross.
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Post by martinl on Jun 18, 2009 9:44:45 GMT
certainly looks liker the mike tyson of the dog world..not as ugly tho lol
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Post by stefan on Jun 18, 2009 11:50:48 GMT
Some of my favorites: I must say I've only seen one in the flesh, but I think the pictures give a good view of the construction.
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Post by mickthetrick on Jun 18, 2009 13:39:18 GMT
Some of my favorites: I must say I've only seen one in the flesh, but I think the pictures give a good view of the construction. ive 3 bred down off the top one stefan. he is their grandsire
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Post by stefan on Jun 18, 2009 13:42:20 GMT
Some of my favorites: I must say I've only seen one in the flesh, but I think the pictures give a good view of the construction. ive 3 bred down of the top one stefan and also the 2nd dog. Why haven't we met then?
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Post by mickthetrick on Jun 18, 2009 13:45:48 GMT
ive 3 bred down of the top one stefan and also the 2nd dog. Why haven't we met then? lol havnt a clue.
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Post by stefan on Jun 18, 2009 13:46:59 GMT
Why haven't we met then? lol havnt a clue. I will send you a pm.
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matt
New Member
Posts: 37
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Post by matt on Jun 18, 2009 18:20:26 GMT
great debate, i loved every minute of your posts. great reading, keep it up fella`s
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Post by sbtlover on Jun 18, 2009 18:45:53 GMT
this makes very good reading.
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Post by frank on Jun 18, 2009 20:14:55 GMT
For neill, but the others may also look ofcourse ;D ;D Some more of Stormer.
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Post by anton on Jun 18, 2009 20:21:32 GMT
got any pictures of Stormers sire to share?
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Post by hiphoplyricalrobot on Jun 18, 2009 21:10:51 GMT
Cheers Frank, he has always been a favorite of mine to look at, i really do like the ebtxsbt dogs. I wonder how you feel about outcrossing in order to achieve a higher amount of a certain quality, like drive from terriers etc. You see i have spoke to people in the past with very nice quality staffords, to put to my imo high quality ebt, but they would not due to the diffrent breeds! In truth i dont understand this, i understand its a scatter breeding, but surely lines can take really good traits from this practice. Was Stormer a freak, or a result of a well planned breeding practice. Certain EBT lines in my eyes must measure up to the top Stafford lines and are therefore worthy of the outcross. I for one am more interested in the correct type than the breed
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matt
New Member
Posts: 37
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Post by matt on Jun 18, 2009 21:16:12 GMT
what way round was the breeding neil, ie male ebt or male stafford? i to am interested in more info.
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Post by hiphoplyricalrobot on Jun 18, 2009 21:20:31 GMT
It would have been a male stafford over lily, i dont think genetically that would affect the pups though ?
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